Philip Slagter: Hi Stephen. How are you doing in “lockdown”?

Stephen Chow: Thanks Philip it’s good to hear from you! I was just thinking today, is art patronage all that I want out of life? And whether I was discontent or not and what to do about that haha

Philip Slagter: That’s interesting.

Stephen Chow: So I was trying to think what else I would regret not doing later in life, and I’m thinking I should at least record some video podcasts talking to other artists that I know and try to get some thoughts recorded for posterity.

Philip Slagter: I think with your energy you could combine art patronage with whatever you want.
That’s a good idea.

Stephen Chow: Unless something really crazy happened, I don’t foresee marriage or becoming a father or anything like that. That has never been something I’ve even dreamed about.

Philip Slagter: Some of us are strangely different than most….could be good interviews.
I understand that but being a father to me was the most beneficial experience of my life.

Stephen Chow: I’ve always felt that I should take the resources available in my life and put it all towards an unusual purpose that wouldn’t otherwise happen

Philip Slagter: Where are you falling short of that now?
We are only in the same eternal moment …..that we perceive as steps in a linear timeline. So maybe you are already doing what you will be doing next.

Stephen Chow: Well I just brought up the podcast idea with my friend and we’re going through what that would look like, getting the ball rolling.

Philip Slagter: And strange things happen in life Stephen….sometimes we connect with another human in ways that are unbelievable. Sometimes positive and sometimes negative. But the moment continues.
Awesome.
I think you will enjoy it.

Stephen Chow: Yes my problem is that I’m not willing to be that spontaneous and act on intuition like that. I think I just need to communicate what I’m thinking with others and dispell those fears
Because I would say in the art patronage world, acting spontaneously has resulted in the best things in my life so far
How are you doing by the way?

Philip Slagter: Funny I was just thinking that about you before you sent that. You have said to me that you were not comfortable just approaching people in conversation.
This might be an awesome chance to transcend that and just enjoy the moment with a lot of strange people. Our strangeness will be on us..not you.

Stephen Chow: If you dont mind sharing, I would love to hear about your best experiences as a father and husband

Philip Slagter: Not a lot has changed here. I’ve seen this coming for a long time
I don’t know that I have honored the “best experiences of a husband” but as a father I did my best. Which meant early on

Stephen Chow: I’m very far from normal let’s be honest 🙂 I’ve never felt comfortable among my peers and worry constantly about the state of the arts hundreds of years from now haha

Philip Slagter: When I watched my daughter being born that I have never experienced anything like that. I recognized that I had been gifted with the care of an angel and needed to step up to that responsibility
I know you are far from “normal” Stephen…..and “good on Ya”
100 years from now is still now. It’s all in our “minds”
You can create that reality for art in the future right now…….because you can’t do it in a linear timeline….because you will be gone

Stephen Chow: So yeah I guess I’m feeling that Instagram is not reaching the audience that I hoped to reach, and that a podcast format, even appearing on others’ podcasts, would break that wall

Philip Slagter: That’s a great idea. I think the key is the marketing. An enigma to me. Probably when younger if the internet had been around I would have enjoyed or used it more.

Stephen Chow: I like the idea of “radical candor” and leaving it all out there. I’m not yet comfortable with what I stand for, the foundation is still on very shaky ground

Philip Slagter: How do you mean “what you stand for”?
I like radical candor as well.
I see that in your taste for music as well

Stephen Chow: I have a sense to know what I like and dont like, but it’s just the tip of the iceberg and I feel like I need much more time to discover new artists before I can comment about the art world on a podcast
But it’s funny because you could ask, Has anyone explored the art world more than I have? I dont know if they have!

Philip Slagter: I think you can validly comment on your perception of the artworld quite well.
And you could take your journey of discovery public….I think it would be well received.
You might become one of the pioneers of the new art world. The old one is in such decay. So limited to a already perceived and contrived view of what art is and is not.
Like everything at the moment.

Stephen Chow: That’s how I see it as well. A huge transition from the old ways to the new.

Philip Slagter: That’s exactly what’s happening…I just can hope that the “new ways” will allow us some liberty. An amazing battle is taking place right now.
As an artist I will always be able to express myself. Separately from any form of control
but never be “seen”

Stephen Chow: Many artists are very comfortable telling me who they think are great within their own genres or subgenres, but no one is really looking ACROSS mediums, or ACROSS cultures, in the way a director of an encyclopedic museum would be expected to

Philip Slagter: You are.

Stephen Chow: How would you characterize the old art world?

Philip Slagter: And I am.

Stephen Chow: Yes I’m realizing that I underestimated that part about you 🙂 You are synthesizing a lot of different things

Philip Slagter: It has gone beyond any regard for “creativity”. It has become tribally oriented to this particular period. A false construct of human productivity and with no regard for the potentiality of artists and subsequently humanity.
I still feel like a child who is a sponge and just cant soak up enough. Because I try to see the connectivity of it all. It’s quite enjoyable when a connection is made but maddening in between.

Stephen Chow: My problem is that I can’t access the unfamiliar stuff without jumping through extra hoops. It’s not like standing in Times Square where you organically find yourself mingling with dozens of cultures

Philip Slagter: Times square becomes tribal in the sense that they have all been attracted there by a force they do not realize. The culture are erased in that spot. A new culture is created

Stephen Chow: It’s like 90% Internet culture of the Western world, and then I have to struggle to get viewpoints from other places, manually bringing them into the fold
So I’ve been helped a lot by browsing hashtags in foreign languages

Philip Slagter: It is maddening Stephen…..the search. I don’t think you will ever abandon it.

Stephen Chow: Yes that true. With artists I almost want an “untainted” culture. That feels zero pressure to appeal to western tastes
This is a great conversation Philip. Do you mind if I post a transcript of it on my website later?

Philip Slagter: That’s a good idea. Easy to find a few words in a post about art that take you to new ideas. New concepts. Those images from the past and present are the adjusting or popular images from their period that form the culture. They can tell us so much.
Of course not Stephen. I am certainly not insecure with who I am…we can’t be if we are to make art. Our work will and should expose all our potentials both negative and positive. We need to own them to make art.

Stephen Chow: New concepts is what I’m looking for. But I feel like i have one foot in the old world and one foot in the new. I want to know what’s being created on the cutting edge, but at the same time I refuse to accept newer mediums like film, conceptual, street, readymade, experiential as art in the sense that I would become a patron for. I’m not even sold on photography lol
I can’t bear to get away from great art as masterfully built objects
As artifacts that can stand alone out of context if they needed to

Philip Slagter: I agree Stephen. A painting is only an object. The same as as sculpture. We just name it 3D or 2D. But 2 D is still an object. with an illusionary surface.

Stephen Chow: But also bearing the fingerprints of the artist. A true original object that comes out of the studio, out of the artist’s hands

Philip Slagter: There is no difference between the arts…..they all come from a human expression of something deeper and manifest in however that individual feels.
That seems to be what you have collected so far.
What about digital art? Valid in your world? It can never be the primary object except in the individual viewers mind. After that it can only become an object because of the advent of the printer. A new construct in reality. Yet it takes the same original source of “creativity” to make it.

Stephen Chow: I’ve looked at a lot of digital art, mostly fantasy/illustration. I haven’t been convinced yet. If anything I would rather support digital typographic designs, like a book designer
Like Wigger Bierma, I LOVE his book designs, and presumably he is someone who would create new beautiful things with art patronage

Philip Slagter: Isn’t that the same thing? An object….book….created from nothing but AI
I think it’s the “creativity” that drives it. No matter the material manifestation.

Stephen Chow: I think what scares me about digital painting is that things are not set in stone. One can still go back to the original files and make changes. Perhaps there is less finality

Philip Slagter: We use the tools available. Imagine DaVinci’s mind playing with computers and AI.

Stephen Chow: Yes but I’ve always thought of a masterpiece as a unique physical object that one makes a pilgrimage to go see. Not something that can scale to millions of screens. Theres something about that that runs counter to my instincts as an art collector
It’s an extra step removed inside a computer screen
That’s the old school part of me 🙂

Philip Slagter: I’m only being the devil’s advocate here Stephen. I agree with you completely. No materially manifested work of art can ever be seen through digital Ai.

Stephen Chow: I appreciate that digital games are flourishing. It can really be said to be a golden age of online games

Philip Slagter: It’s quite wonderful to find someone that thinks in a similar vein.
That’ called online conditioning
It has nothing to do with a “game”

Stephen Chow: But these games get millions of fans. Their production budgets are in the tens of millions of dollars

Philip Slagter: So how does that equate to art?

Stephen Chow: Well it would be more accurate to call them “vehicles for digital art” when done in a creative way

Philip Slagter: Maybe make an art game?

Stephen Chow: Creative story-telling, art direction, sound design, etc.

Philip Slagter: I think that’s all there already.

Stephen Chow: Theres actually a game that exists where you play the Medici patron
And you’re responsible for making the commercial transactions to buy art with

Philip Slagter: What’s the message you want to send…..because I don’t feel you are in this for yourself Stephen ?

Stephen Chow: Not at all, I want to be a thorn in the side of the art world to remind everyone why we’re collecting art, being a patron of the arts. I want to present as pure an example as I can possibly give and perhaps be a role model to some

Philip Slagter: That game is AI and you are only responsible for the limited amount of choices they give you.
And you are already doing that.

Stephen Chow: I love each of the arts that I support for different reasons, but underlying that is showing that it’s okay to connect with people from wildly different cultures and become unified in an appreciation for greatness in art
If I didn’t exist, I would find the art world terribly depressing 🙂
So I’m trying desperately to figure out how to get more people to understand my point of view

Philip Slagter: You are wonderful.
I have been at it 73 years already and some will understand but most will not. So enjoy the journey.

Stephen Chow: I want to show people that art can be so meaningful that one is willing to spend 100% of ones own income on supporting great artists
Because it is so desperately needed
And deserving of that level of support

Philip Slagter: This is a wonderful conversation Stephen thank you
And how do we show them?

Stephen Chow: Haha that makes me think of the old UNICEF commercials

Philip Slagter: I think you are 100% correct

Stephen Chow: I really think that video podcasts are the most affecting to viewers. They can get as close as possible to the people involved

Philip Slagter: I agree to reach a large audience.
Or even just to document an artist in a moment of time for the future

Stephen Chow: My only hope right now is that the people who truly get it will become independently wealthy through Bitcoin
I dont have my hopes up for convincing any doubters.

Philip Slagter: Haha I hope so too because I will make a little bit.

Stephen Chow: Or helping others make money through sponsorship deals. That requires a very large audience

Philip Slagter: We can always convince/show doubters.
That’s out of my league Stephen. I think you will be able to do whatever you set your mind to and accomplish it. I don’t understand how to aquire that audience……I mean, I do understand but just don’t want to go there. Cause then no painting.

Stephen Chow: Yes it’s a lot to ask of one person

Philip Slagter: I enjoyed our conversation very much Stephen. I’m going to paint. Good night. Unfinished painting staring at me 🙂

Stephen Chow: Absolutely, thanks so much for your time today

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